Conversational Prayer – BT20

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Drawing-near, conversational-prayer does include giving thanks for His stuff but should lead us to worshipping God Himself




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See Conversational-Prayer – BT4 for seeking God Himself and not just His stuff or help.


We already saw in Conversation-Prayer – BT11 that proseuche conversational-prayer is also more like the Greek noun eucharistia, meaning “an attitude of gratitude and thankfulness expressed chiefly through prayer,” and that we should be devoted to it as Paul strongly-urges:  “be presently/ongoingly proskartereo persistently-relationally-devoted-toward (a) proseuche conversational-prayer, routinely gregoreo vigilantly-watching (b) in it with with eucharistia thanksgiving” (c).  He also strongly-urges us to “presently/ongoingly be proseuchomai conversationally-praying without ceasing, presently/ongoingly be giving eucharistia thanksgiving in all (or all-kinds-of) circumstances, for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus for you” (d).  This is one of the few places “the will of God” is explicitly stated!  Paul tells Timothy “[I strongly-urge-you] that deesis supplication, proseuche conversational-prayers, enteuxis confident-approaching-intercessions, [and] eucharistia thanksgiving be made on-behalf-of all people, for kings and those in high positions, that we may lead a eremos ‘undisturbed, placid, tranquil, composed’ and/coupled hesuchios ‘still, quiet, calm, steady, settled’ life” (e). <Notes> a) proskartereo:  “pros towards-and-interacting-with plus kartereo ‘showing of steadfast strength,’ thus to consistently show strength that prevails in spite of difficulties, thus to endure and stay in a fixed direction, continuing to do something with intense effort despite difficulty, and so be persistently-relationally-devoted-to,” b) watching in prayer is the topic of Conversational-Prayer – BT17 and – BT18,  c) Colossians 4:2, d) 1 Thessalonians 5:17-18, d) 1 Timothy 2:1-2.


Furthermore Paul says, “Therefore, as you received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in him, rooted and built up in Him and established in The Trusting-Relying-Faith, just as you were taught, abounding in eucharistia thanksgiving” (a).  So Paul strongly-urges us to:  “Be anxious about nothing but through proseuche conversational-prayer and/coupled deesis supplication [both together] with eucharistia thanksgiving, let your aitema specific-subordinately-asked-petitions be made gnorizo experientially, relationally known to God” (b).  That’s the cure for the “cares of this world” that can “choke the gospel logos message so it proves unfruitful” (c), so Peter also strongly-urges us:  “Lower/humble yourselves under the mighty hand of God . . . routinely casting ALL your anxieties upon Him, because He cares for you” (d).  Paul says that when we pray or sing in tongues we are most definitely offering blessing and thanksgiving to God:  “If you are eulogeo ‘speaking a good, beneficial logos message, thus blessing’ God by-the-means-of the Spirit, how will he who occupies the place of the uninformed/ignorant say ‘Amen’ (e) at your eucharistia thanksgiving [that tongues must contain] since he does absolutely-in-fact-NOT eido mentally ‘see’ to perceive/know what you say” (f)?  Obvious blessing-praise as an exuberant form of worship contains thanksgiving, and tongues is a great way to do it all!  This is also what Paul most likely was referring to when he strongly-urges us to “routinely, proseuchomai conversationally-praying in all occasions by the means of the Holy Spirit . . . routinely watching by the means of all persistency” (g) – see also The Grace-Gifts of Tongues & Interpretation and Conversational-Prayer – BT22<Notes> a) Colossians 2:6-7, b) Philippians 4:6, c) Matthew 13:22; Mark 4:19, d) 1 Peter 5:6-7, e) Hebrew for “So Be It” agreement, f) 1 Corinthians 14:16, g) Ephesians 6:18.


Clearly there is a strong relationship between worship and prayer.  In, the New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology writes that “In OT prayer…the suppliant never forgot that he was addressing the holy, almighty God. The frequent use of the verb proskuneo for worship therefore indicated the customary bowing, kneeling, or prostrate posture in prayer.”  Indeed proskuneo means “to kiss another’s hand (as a dog licking the hand), kissing the ground in front of someone, or kissing the hem of one’s garment, kiss one’s hands toward someone, bend one’s waist forward toward someone, fall upon one’s knees toward someone, or prostrate oneself in reverent submission to someone.” In the OT, it showed respect for authority, reverence, submission, and in 75% of the time as worship, and these actions were the customary postures in proseuche conversational-prayer.


In the NT we also see the “bowing of knees before the Father” in Paul’s proseuchomai conversational-praying for Christians (a), in worship of Jesus (b), in the mock-worship of Jesus (c), and the worship of Jacob by His sons (d), and the worship of Baal (e). <Notes> a) Ephesians 3:14; Acts 21:5, b) Romans 14:11; Philippians 2:10; Luke 5:8; Acts 7:60, c) Matthew 27:27; Mark 15:19, d) Hebrews 11:21, e) Romans 11:4.


In Conversational-Prayer – BT8, we saw that the Greek word normally used for “drawing near” is proserchomai but eggizo can be used for “drawing extremely close” and both are Hebrew idioms for worship (a).  Notice that proseuchomai conversationally-praying and proserchomai drawing-near sound almost the same, both are used 86 times in the NT, and both have the prefix pros for “the bending, kneeling, throwing, or falling on one’s face toward” because both are nearly the same idea: euchomai is to wish-pray and erchomai is to come-from-one-place-to-another!  <Notes> a) James 4:8 “drawing-extemely-close to God in order that God will draw-extremely-close to us,” Hebrews 7:19, Ezekiel 43:19, Zephaniah 3:2, and Isaiah 58:2 uses eggizo, but other verses use proserchomai:  also a Hebraism for “seeking an audience with, approaching, inquiring of, calling on to visit, or be heard by” God, thus closely akin in spelling and meaning to proseuche conversational-prayer and proskuneo worship, used of approaching God’s grace through full assurance that God exists and rewards those who have trusting-relying-faith in Christ:  Hebrews 4:16, 7:25, 10:22, 11:6; of attaching/connecting oneself to Christ to participate in the benefits procured by Him:  1 Peter 2:4, cf. John 15:1-8 abiding in Christ; warnings of NOT drawing-close-to the  sound-messages of the Lord Jesus Christ but especially not teaching them:  1 Timothy 6:3; of priests about to offer sacrifices: Leviticus 21:17, 21; Deuteronomy 21:5, that can’t make anybody perfect as Jesus can: Hebrews 10:1; of seeking God’s counsel:  1 Samuel 14:36.


The Lord’s ‘Prayer model’ starts with adoring worship of The Father:  “[I strongly urge] to be definitively/wholly hagiazo ‘sanctified/dedicated separate/special, consecrate as holy/pure’ Thy name/person/authority” (a). The completely-different-in-kind chadash/kainos New Covenant be definition of chadash/kainos has absolutely nothing to do with latreuo liturgically-worship-serving God through commandments of circumcision, liturgical rituals and sacrifices, but “Therefore let us be grateful for receiving a kingdom that cannot be shaken, and thus let us latreuo liturgically-worship-serve God acceptably with reverence and awe” (b), for Paul says:  “We are the [true] circumcision, who are routinely latreuo liturgically-worship-serve by-the-means-of the Spirit of God and/coupled routinely kauchaomai ‘holding the neck high with God-given confidence, boasting/exulting’ in Christ Jesus kai and/thus already having [with ongoing results] absolutely-in-fact-NOT peitho ‘put-confidence or persuasion in what is deemed trustworthy’ (c) in the [context: ritual circumcision or any works of the] flesh” (d).  <Notes> a) Matthew 6:9; Luke 11:2, b) Hebrews 12:28, c) this is at the root of pistis trusting-relying-faith in what/who is trustworthy, d) Philippians 3:3.


Can you see how Paul has redefined latreuo liturgically-worship-serving, and he does again!  After spending Romans chapter 11 about the place of Israel in God’s plans now that they rejected their Messiah, In Romans 12:1 Paul redefines the “acceptable, pleasing sacrifices to God” NOW under the completely-different-in-kind New Covenant: “I presently/ongoingly parakaleo ‘close-beside call on, exhort, encourage, counsel, and instruct’ you brethren . . . to presently/ongoingly paristemi ‘close-beside standing, ready to present’ your bodies [as a] routinely zoa genuinely-living thusia ‘official, prescribed sacrifice/offering acceptable to God as were many in the OT’, hagios sanctified/holy, euarestos ‘well/good-pleasing because they are fully acceptable’ to The God, this [being] [singular] logikos ‘divinely logical, rational, reasonable from the context of God’s logos message to us’ latreia liturgical-worship-service of/belonging-to you.”  So if you still want to “do something” to liturgical-worship-serve God it should be “routinely by-the-means-of the Spirit of God and/coupled routinely kauchaomai ‘holding the neck high with God-given confidence, boasting/exulting’ in Christ Jesus” – certainly not any of your ‘spiritual disciplines or sacrifices for your church – and “presently/ongoingly paristemi ‘close-beside standing, ready to present’ your bodies [as a] routinely zoa genuinely-living thusia ‘official, prescribed sacrifice/offering acceptable to God as were many in the OT’, hagios sanctified/holy, euarestos ‘well/good-pleasing because they are fully acceptable’ to The God.”  Personally, I like to physically gesture with my hand(s), even “lifting up holy hands” (a), this surrender to the Lord of my mind, emotions, will (psyche – soul) and then various parts or all of my body, thus encompassing all aspects of my flesh – see Identity. <Notes> ) Psalms 28:2, 134:2; 1 Timothy 2:8.


According to Vine’s Expository Dictionary and, proseuche means to “an exchange immediately before, facing, or towards (pros) God, indicating close relational contact, of wishes (euche) that includes worshipful, adoring devotion – something not present in the words involving supplication/petition – the act of such prayer being itself an acceptable offering to God.” recognizes that “Apostolic worship can be discerned by focusing on words such as prayer (predominantly proseuche and proseuchomai), praise, thanksgiving, blessing, and on the content of hymns.” We see this coming even from God-fearing Jews that act as a memorial before God (a), even the “prayers of the saints that ascend before God” (b). <Notes> a) Acts 10:4, 31, b) Revelation 5:8, 8:3-4.


To really bring home the point that it’s not where you worship God that matters but how you worship God under the completely-different-in-kind New Covenant that does, Jesus tells the Samarian woman at the well:  “The hour is coming when neither on this mountain (of Samaria) nor in Jerusalem (Temple) shall you actually routinely proskuneo worship the Father . . . But the hour is coming, and is now here, when the true/genuine worshipers shall actually routinely proskuneo worship the Father en by-the-means-of [singular] Spirit and/coupled en by-the-means-of [singular] Truth, for the Father is presently/ongoingly zeteo seeking (a) such people to routinely proskuneo worship Him. God is Spirit kai and/thus those routinely proskuneo worshipping Him are presently/ongoingly necessarily constrained to presently/ongoingly worship en by-the-means-of [singular] Spirit and/coupled en by-the-means-of [singular] Truth” (b). The definite article “the” isn’t necessary in front of “Spirit” or “Truth” because they are both [singular].  In many other places of the NT it’s similarly missing, but always refers to the Holy Spirit and Jesus Christ, respectively – see Promised Spirit and The Truth pages. It absolutely should not be translated as “in human spirit” and “in sincerity” as some bibles erroneously translate. Also translating the preposition en with words following in the dative case as “in Spirit” or “in Truth” as if it were the ‘dative of location’ ignores the more obvious choice of “by the means/instrument of” called the ‘dative of instrument’ that fits the meaning of the context:  it’s how people are going about worshipping God that Jesus is concerned, not where they do it at.  Wherever you can worship “by-the-means-of Spirit and by-the-means-of Truth” is perfect to God!  Thus by using “in” the translators make it very vague of what Jesus meant – another case of making the bible “mysterious” – see Bible Info<Notes> a) searching diligently in order to find, investigate, desire/crave, aim/strive after, b) John 4:23-24.


Religious people love to focus on WHERE they worship God, even on building altars and houses – see Conversational-Prayer – BT4.  It wasn’t God’s idea to even build the first Temple but King David’s and Nathan the priest okayed it without even going to God first (a).  The second Temple sure wasn’t God’s idea either – evil King Herod built it out of pure pride as he did everything in his rule!  The entire priesthood, scribes, and Pharisees made their lavish living from the Temple, not the mention the daily “marketplace” as a “den of robbers” that ‘feasted’ off the profits they could make right outside its door!  There were so many latreia liturgical-worship-services going on every day in the Temple, but that’s not the way Jesus viewed the Temple, but simply as “My bayith/oikos House (b) of tephillah/proseuche Prayer (c)” (d).  The focus is on “the dwelling place of God” but also where His family meets Him and one another.  And we know this prayer is a form of worship to Him.  How so?  By respectfully waiting for Him to speak by listening for Him and then to Him!  <Notes> a) 1 Chronicles 17:1, b) bayith:  a dwelling habitation, abode containing a family or household including servants; oikos: an inhabited house/building/place for dwelling/residence, the inmates forming a working-collective [demons] or family or household including servants, even representing a race of descendants, and only rarely of physical belongings, c) tephillah:  although it can simply refer to prayer in general, or the action of praying in general even as intercession, or can refer to liturgical prayer, it often refers to the attentive “giving of ear to” shama/akouo listening/hearing towards God during prayer or of God listening/hearing our prayers:  1 Kings 8:28, 38-39, 45, 49, 9:3; 2 Chronicles 6:19-20, 35, 39-40, 7:15; Psalms 17:1, 66:19-20, 86:6; Nehemiah 1:6, 11; Daniel 9:17– see also Conversational-Prayer – BT14 and – BT15, d) Matthew 21:13; Mark 11:17; Luke 19:46 citing Isaiah 56:7; proseuche: conversational-prayer that can include supplication – see Conversational-Prayer – BT10, but focuses instead on listening/hearing.


Isn’t it strange that although you find this practice of worshipful, thankful, patiently-waiting, watchful, listening, dialogue of proseuche conversational-prayer a dominant reason that started revivals and actually the dominant practice during revivals – and subsequent holiness throughout the area, you see very little of it in the modern Church today!  If there is any prayer, it’s a 5 minute ritualistic reciting of the ‘Lord’s Prayer’ as if it was something other than the model of how to pray that it actually is – and many Catholics still use the repetition of rosary beads, but in either case completely ignoring Christ’s warning to  “not-in-possibility babble repetitiously as the pagans do, for they think that they will be heard for their many words” per Matthew 6:7!





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